In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. The norma would cost more if I had to open the bolt face. MAG. (.357 Mag., .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Rem. The 35 Whelen shoots much flatter then it gets credit for, aboult the same as the 30-06 but with heaver bullets. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. .423 S.D. For those that were wondering the differences in the different available cartridges, I picked up this bit of info at the A,J Brown Custom Rifles table at the Boat Show today. 375 Blaser Mag. 35 Cal 225gr Spitzer Nosler AccuBond® Part #50712 . When hunting over bait or with hounds, you know that the shot will be close, and my … As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. These bullets were of light construction and did not perform well at higher velocities such as the 35 Whelen or 358 Norma. With black bear, the hunting technique tends to dictate the shot. The huge mystery about the.358 Winchester is its incredible lack of popularity. Just for comparison purposes in the past three or so weeks I've looked at the ballistics of an 8 x 68, 338-06, 308 Norma Mag., the 9.3 x 62 and the 35 Whelen shooting 225 Gr. exlcusive user. This cartridge is more powerful than its parent, especially in killing power on large game. Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remington—that popular woods rifle—is much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. The nearest of any to the .358 Norma was the .35 Newton, which it closely resembles. Thought about that 375 Ruger but nah. Can this be made into a .358 Norma Mag or must I do a .35 Whelen. 35 Whelen Load Data; 358 Norma Magnum Load Data; 358 Shooting Times Alaskan (STA) Load Data; 9.3×74 R Load Data; 9.3 X 62 Mauser Load Data; 9.3x64mm Brenneke Load Data; 375 Holland & Holland (H&H) Magnum Load Data; 375 Ruger Load Data; 378 Weatherby Magnum Load Data; 375 Remington Ultra Magnum Load Data; 416 Ruger Load Data ; 416 Remington Magnum Load Data; 416 Rigby Load … The .357 Magnum is ideal for light game like javelina and will do for the smaller species of deer and antelope at short range. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's. With the 338/06 the situation was reversed. The 250 … .35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. The .350 can drive a 250 grain bullet to a MV of 2500 fps. Have a .350 Rem Mag, building a .358 Win currently, would prefer to do the .358 Norma if possible but not sure if this action can handle it.Anyone? lbs. Compare the Queen of the .35's, the .350 Remington Magnum--the original short (.308 length) magnum cartridge--with the new generation of short action magnums. This is a particularly apt comparison because the re-introduced .350 is available in the Remington Model Seven rifle, which is also offered in .300 short magnum calibers. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. Has been used in dark continent on serious game, big bears in NA, and a great round for whitetail too. I have to admit i don't have a lot of experience with either, but i believe they will both do a good job at reasonable ranges spitting out a decent weight slug for larger farmed animals. Man könnte die.35 Whelen durchaus als eine Art "amerikanische 9,3x62" bezeichnen. Compare practically any small bore cartridge (.32 caliber or less) with a .35 caliber cartridge of similar powder capacity and the result is pretty much the same. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. Remington continues to load the .35 Whelen with two bullets, a 200-grain pointed Core-Lokt at a velocity rating of 2,675 fps and a 250-grain pointed Core-Lokt at 2,400 fps. Based on a necked up .308 Winchester case, the .358 Winchester is still powerful enough for interior Alaskan bears and is perhaps the best brush and thick timber cartridge ever developed. Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. ), but with considerably less recoil. I have always found the .35 Whelen loads on the mild side. when fired in a 7.5 pound rifle. Joined Aug 9, 2012 Messages 1,111 Location Australia. See the point-of-impact and hold point in the new shooters eye view! NEW FOR 2007! I think it would be cheeper to get another action or a magnum bolt. Throw a belt on the .35 Newton and you couldn’t tell the difference three feet away. The primary cartridge in .338" was the 338 Win Mag, so dropping a few hundred fps from the mag to the 06 case did not present performance problems. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 … 03 November 2003, 07:01. Good article Ray. the selection of bullets that would perform well was quite limited. 5,5 mm 5,6 x 52 R 500 Jeffery 500 N.E. 416 Rigby 416 Taylor 450 Rigby 458 Lott 458 Win. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received. Als ehemalige Wildcatpatrone ist die Whelen eine auf das Kaliber.358/ 9mm aufgeweitete.30-06 (die metrische Bezeichnung dieser Patrone wäre 9,1x63). 35 Whelen 220 35 Whelen 250 358 Norma Magnum 180 358 Norma Magnum 250. Whelen would not. [quote=encorerbHmmm, makes me wonder. The recent introduction of a Hornady LeverEvolution factory load for the .35 Remington has usefully improved its ballistics. I have recently acquired some of the premium Nosler 225 grain partitions to try and have found them excellent in my 35 Whelen AI and 350 Rem Mag (see my loading notes page). The .300 Rem. Boltface would have to be altered for the Norma. I'm looking for a simpler project on this one. Mag. If you want more go with a 358 Norma Mag. The .35 Whelen, .35 Remington and .350 Rem Mag are the ultimate woods calibers. and .358 Norma Mag.). Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? While most of the .35 caliber rifle cartridges are powerful medium bore numbers designed for use on large (CXP3) game like elk and moose, the most popular .35 caliber rifle cartridge is the .35 Remington. And by the mid 1920’s, the .35 Whelen had been created based on the .30-06 case, necked up to accept .358” bullets. If you happen to have a .35 and don't mind the extra recoil, there is no denying that it will flat get the job done. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. This standard (.30-06) length magnum cartridge drives a 250 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2799 fps with 4350 ft. lbs. However, the optimum game range of the .358 (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2300 fps) is 240 yards. 9.3mm (366 dia) 9.3x62mm 270 9.3x74R 270. Quite a difference! Maybe I'll just get a 375 H+H instead of going the Norma route. 470 N.E. 03 November 2003, 05:44 . Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. My favorite hunting round. In the mid 70's I picked up a 358Norma. The .35 Whelen is a powerful medium-bore rifle cartridge that does not require a magnum action or a magnum bolt-face. It, as you know, can be loadeddown to be a 35 Whelen but the reverse is not true. Maybe it's a regular BDL? Even the obscure .358 Norma Magnum is the most efficient of the belted-magnum cartridges [note - by the author's own data the 350 Remington Magnum bests the 358 Norma]. Well, the .30-06 Springfield and the 9.3x62mm Mauser are the two cartridges most often compared to the .35 Whelen. I also now have some 310gr Woodleighs to try. This ‘poor man’s .375’ would steadily grow in popularity but for the time being, no major commercial rifle or ammunition manufacturer was willing to adopt this as a mainstream cartridge. The .358 Norma Magnum is a rifle cartridge introduced in 1959 by Norma.The cartridge is closely related to the .308 Norma Magnum.Both calibers share the same dimensions of the case head as the .300 H&H Magnum, but have far less body taper, resulting in the same internal capacity in a shorter case. .358 Norma brass is a snap to make from 338 Win Mag brass. Mag. Als Entwicklung des Amerikaners James Howe von der FA. Not necessarily top dollar everything. SAUM and .300 WSM, with their 180 grain bullets at a MV of 2960-2970 fps, have an optimum range of about 120 yards on 1000 pound animals. .358 vs.35 Whelen To what pressure levels are the two being loaded? Black bear cartridges, left to right: .358 Winchester, .348 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum. The latter is a very good choice for the largest and toughest game. Just have it rebarreled to 9.3X62, and you will have a 358 Norma with five in the magazine! or the 358 STA. For my money, Whelen is the way to go. I have become a 35 cal. History. On a 600 pound animal like a big bull elk the optimum game range of the .308 (180 grain bullet at a MV of 2610 fps) is a useful 175 yards. Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3. Having already discussed the various merits of individual bullet designs in the .35 Whelen section, the ahead text will focus on select bullet designs for use in the .358 Norma. (50 count) Ballistics: B.C. The 338's do have some bullets made for long range shooting that are not offered in .358 cal. Somehow, years ago, I got the notion that it is not prudent to be opening the bolt face of a 700 from standard (270W) to magnum (358N). Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum … If we compare the.300 Win. The entire group are almost ballistic twins. That load has a maximum optimal range on 1000 pound game (like a big Alaskan moose or brown bear) of 151 yards. There were numerous .35-caliber rifle cartridges born in the 20th century, but most of them didn’t live to see the dawning of the 21st century. Paul B. The 358 actually has an ought six counterpart in the .35 Whelen. Would be nice to have a 35 Wheelie, 350 Rem and a .358 Win. It, as you know, can be loadeddown to be a 35 Whelen but the reverse is not true. Perhaps, if the word gets out to the shooting public, the born again .350 may finally achieve the commercial success it deserves. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the.358 Norma Mag. I think anything over the 225 and the bullets are going to extend into the case too much when loaded to MOL in the .358. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. It will work in this action with ease and will be plenty cheap to feed and use if one simply sizes up 338 brass and goes along thier happy way. pills at 2800 fps. All rights reserved. The .35 Caliber Cartridge Family As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. The parent of this cartridge is the .30-06 Springfield, which is necked-up to accept a bullet diameter of .358 in (9.1 mm). Winchester’s design was simply the .308 case necked up to hold .358″ diameter bullets, offering 200-grain bullets at … The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge has also gained considerable popularity as a combination rifle/pistol cartridge and lever action rifles for the .357 Magnum sell pretty well. 35 Whelen 358 Norma Mag. Another vote for something different.The 358 STA would be the one. 35 Whelen is the poor man's .375 H&H Mag. of muzzle energy. Many 250 grain spitzer bullets designed for the.35 Whelen and the.358 Norma Magnum are too long to work through the magazines of repeating rifles when seated normally in the shorter.358 Winchester case. 4,5 mm 404 Jeffery 416 Rem. The expansion ratio for.35 caliber cartridges is ideal for shorter barreled rifles. I have long been something of a .35 caliber fan, but I have to admit that I believe the reason for the general lack of public acceptance of all but the least powerful .35's is, in a word, recoil. This is comparable killing power to the long .375 H&H Magnum with a 300 grain bullet (ME 4331 ft. but it does have the 22" barrel and the irons , looks and feels like a MTN rifle to me. Don't like Rugers much had my fill of them and now they are gone down the road. After ten years of not getting drawn I sold it it was too much gun for most of my hunting. Of course, it took the .338 Winchester Magnum many years to catch on, and it took the .243/6mm cartridges over a half century after the introduction of the 6mm Lee Navy cartridge to gain popular acceptance, so perhaps there is still hope for the .35's. It was verry expensive to shoot, lots of powder and expensive bullets and brass. Incredibly, although designed for the .35 Remington, the 180 grain Speer … 35 IDC 180gr 2200 fps 1.5" case length 7mm BR parent case 358 Herring 180gr 2500 fps 1.625" case length .358 … .30-06 Springfield vs .35 Whelen vs 9.3x62mm Mauser. A 358Norma is a good fit for this action. I say that because so many reasonably successful yet hard kicking cartridges have been introduced in the last few years. Mag. The .358 Norma can easily be put to use as a light game bush / woods hunting cartridge, whether hunting Roe, Sika, Black Tail or lighter sub species of White Tail. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. It was an 03 Springfield action, unknown barrel, very nice piece of wood, all the fancy metal work done (custom trigger, side safety ala Rem 700, cocking knob and safety removed, milled floorplate, forged bolt, speedloader slots removed, D&T'd ,polished and blued). In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. I agree with most everything, but, even though the 338-06 does have a couple virtues over the Whelen, I think that they are generally over-emphasized and in the real world any difference would go virtually unnoticed. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. 375 caliber (375 dia) 375 Winchester 235 375 HH Magnum 235 375 HH Magnum 270 375 HH Magnum 285 375 Ruger 235 375 Ruger 270 375 Ruger 285 375 Remington Ultra Magnum 270 375 Remington Ultra Magnum 285 378 Weatherby Magnum 285. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. In reality, my 35 Whelen Ackley Improved (Shilen barreled 03-A3 hand lapped action and Fajen custom stock) is the one, true king of the 35’s. The Newton was supposedly loaded, by Western Cartridge, to 2,975 fps with a 250-grain bullet, but I, for one, would want … I bought it as a moose rifle but never got drawn in ten years. i have a 35 whelen and love it. As other cartridges of the same caliber go, the .35 Remington is 400 to 500 fps slower than the .35 Whelen, and the .358 Norma Magnum is 400 fps faster. .251 OAL. 35 Whelen. This wonderful efficiency of the .35 calibers is especially remarkable when one considers that most all of these rounds are verging on obsolescence today. Well, it betters the velocity of the .35 Whelen by at least 200 fps, much the same as the .338 Winchester Magnum does to the .338-06. from the 24" barrel of a Marlin 336XLR rifle. Looks like I'll do a Whelen. Mag. Copyright 2003, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. a good brush buster and good to 300 yards. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. it is one nice gun and made for tight places. [/quote], There are but two parties now, traitors and patriots.......Ulysses S Grant - 1861. With that said, I'll stick to my .35 Whelen and .338 magnums, thank you very much. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. 375 FL. Compare the .308 Winchester and the .358 Winchester, which are based on the same case, and the .358 wins hands down. 35 Whelen (5 products) 35 Winchester (3 products) 350 Remington Mag (2 products) 350 Rigby Magnum (1 product) 351 Winchester Self-Loading (1 product) 356 Winchester (1 product) 358 Norma Mag (1 product) 358 Winchester (3 products) 375 CheyTac (2 products) 375 Flanged Nitro Express 2.5 (1 product) 375 H&H Mag (5 products) 375 Remington Ultra (1 product) 375 Rimless 2.25 (1 product) 375 … They will also slap down lighter game like deer, feral hogs and black bear with authority, of course. You know the kind with the locking bolt. A 358Norma is a good fit for this action. However, that may be changing, or at least the possibility of change may exist. Is there a way to find out what year it is by serial #? I'd go with the 35 whelen. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. Feb 23, 2013 #14 havgunwilltravel Active member. Food for thought, is it not? That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in the bunch. Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. The .35 Whelen is a necked up medium bore wildcat cartridge that was created by necking up a .30-06 Springfield case which is famously overpowered for the 30-caliber bullet it propels. It will kill farther than that, of course, but that is its optimum range. Thier wouldn't be any action mods required to do the Whelen,...just rebarrel and enjoy. Griffin & Howe developed the semiwildcat .350 G&H based on the .375 H&H case, as well as pioneering the .35 Whelen. This is basically a deer and black bear (CXP2 class game) cartridge, although it is reputed to be superior to cartridges in the .30-30 class for game weighing over about 400 pounds. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game. 375 H&H Mag. This means that the.358 can realize its full potential in a 20 to 22 inch barrel rather than the 26 inch barrel needed for most magnum cartridges. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 already do, if anything. That list, by the way, is in ascending order of power. This is in sharp contrast to the overwhelming success of the .357/9mm handgun cartridges, whose popularity dates right to the beginning of the self-contained cartridge era. Far more alternatives, in fact, than exist in several more popular caliber families. It’s versatility is unmatched by the 358, 348, 35 Rem, 350 Rem Mag or 358 Norma, IMO. 41 caliber (416 dia) 41 Remington Magnum … The same could be said of other bore diameters based on the .30-06 case. 9.3x62 is no slouch either! of energy at the muzzle. So it is fair to say that, over the years, .35 caliber rifles at least have caught the interest of the gun and ammo manufacturers, if not the general shooting public. I don't feel the Ackley is worth it. Black bears can generally be taken with deer cartridges and tough bullets, and for close-range work the old brush-busters are perfect. Some of the newer powders make a difference in the standard 35 Whelen. Wstrnhuntr. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a … Exceptions to this are the Speer 250 grain Hot-Cor and Grand Slam bullets. The .358 Winchester is the least powerful .358 when compared to the .35 Whelen and .358 Norma, but that’s not the whole story. I did kill a ton of squirels with pistol bullets and a little 700X, it would shoot little cloverleafs at 50 yrds. So how does it stack up to other cartridges? N.E. Mag.