For Gen 1 customers who want to run a caliber other than 9mm, SIG will offer them a “complete Gen 2 upper receiver assembly at the same cost as a caliber exchange kit” — but only in .40 or .357 SIG. In the end, it’s all what feels best in your hand. The fun is over way to soon. I have large hands and like the way it feels and shoots. Taurus has had some bad press although mine (six revolvers and a Millennium Pro) always work great. work better for others , allowing them to participate in 9mm vs 45 ACP Ballistics. The XDs – which I really wanted to love, shot the worst and felt the worst. Hey. No P365 for me. I agree. The 9mm vs. Thanks for the article. It used to be, and for the most part still is, that after firing 500 rounds of your favorite defensive ammo, you’d know that your new gun would be reliable. Ronnie. The cartridge is used by a number of law enforcement agencies and has a good reputation for accuracy.[3]. I have an old Jennings 9 that is just as small and holds more rounds. Now, the P365 is having striker and trigger issues, and Sig is trying to act as if that is normal wear and tear on the pistol. Yes most gun owners are freedom-loving persons. I own a P320, a Springfield XDM compact and a couple rugers. P11 is now a dinosaur. Since the P229 has a smaller grip area, it is quite easier to conceal. My Walter PPS M2 rides in my pocket when that mode of carry is most needed Due to attire choice. Due to its expense, as .357 SIG practice ammo is about twice the cost of 9mm and around 50% more than .40 S&W, .357 SIG never achieved widespread adoption like .40 S&W.[4][5][6]. GunsAmerica never posted the comment. Glock told me that it was a shooter or ammo issue. Should have compared with the Glock 43x …not the 43……Article “seemed” biased toward Sig from the get go! Though the Taurus isn’t near as popular, the two are more similar on paper with the exception of price. I have also owned the Kahr CM9. Easier to shoot and conceal. I’ve owned and carried a P365 for over a year after having carried four other subcompacts for five years. A one pound trigger pull difference might not seem like much but it’s significant on a percentage basis and was noticeable while shooting groups. One area I never see addressed on these reviews is the feed ramp angle. (I can do little better with my Glock 17 out to 25 feet.) It is measured in inches or in millimeters. Racking the slide on smaller 9mm guns can sometimes be a challenge due to having little to hang on too while having to overcome the short stiff recoil springs. He is passionate about shooting sports and the outdoors. This is much less important to me now. Average of 6 trigger pulls is 4 lbs. Performance is similar to the 9×23mm Winchester. I love sales. The P365 clearly wins in this category. Also, which gun produces more inherent recoil due to weight and bore-axis. They are all great guns and I have shot them all. Engagement success being defined as disengagement on my terms, 6+1 will get it done. Jeff Cramblit is a world-class competitive shooter having won medals at both the 2012 IPSC World Shotgun Championship in Hungary and more recently the 2017 IPSC World Rifle Championship in Russia. For all their “downsides” Glocks are, if anything, reliable. Takedown for cleaning is very easy. Indeed Old Coot. Jeff is intimately familiar with the shooting industry – competitor, instructor, RO, range master, match director. Bullet Trajectory Chart shows the decreased bullet drop with the increased … In this article I will be comparing two kinds of similar but very different handgun calibers: the 9×19 Parabellum and the .357 SIG. Taurus G2c is a quarter inch wider, it would be more comparable to a P320SC or a Glock G26 than any of these guns. SIG Sauer: The Elite Performance FMJ in 10mm is a solid range and practice round, while the 10mm V-Crown load with a 180-grain JHP bullet is a great option for both hunting and self-defense. I own a 365, and 938. We Americans are rapidly losing freedoms once cherished and taken for granted. The size and capacity of this plastic gun makes it sound attractive and every article I have read says this is a great gun. Every gun manufacturer has had some issues with one model or another. In 1994, Sig released the P229 pistol, the first production handgun introduced that was chambered in .357 SIG and specifically designed to handle the higher pressures of that round. IIRC, all the 9mm I come across in the gun shops is 9mm Luger (might mention it’s also known as 9mm Parabellum just for those that don’t like to read…) So my Sig P226 and SW99 should be fine with 9mm NATO, but grandpa’s WWII bring-back Luger wouldn’t be… Purchased it along with the extended magazine. Thank you! These are reliable, accurate,and durable little pistols,that perform flawlessly. The .357 Sig uses a bullet that is similar in diameter to the 9mm Luger. Either way, you can’t go wrong. Other than the two failures with the large-mouthed bullets, all three of the guns ran 100% with both flush and extended magazines, with a wide variety of ammunition- these are highly reliable guns. Carrying it with a 12 round and having a second 17 round in my pouch is standard. I still love my P938, but it now sits idle in the safe having been supplanted by the P365. Among his training credits include NRA Instructor, AR-15 armorer, FBI Rifle Instructor, and Officer Low Light Survival Instructor. I had multiple failures of the slide to go into battery. Price is a valid concern for many of us. I went with shield 40, holds 7+1 of underwood 115g extreme defender rounds. Well, when Dallas PD had 500 of them with similar issues, they replaced my barrel. My wife and I were both carrying Sig P938s when the P365 came out. IMHO the best concealed carry gun hands down ever made. I have shot ~300 rounds with the P365 without a single failure using Remington Golden Saber 147 gran, Federal HST 124 grain, and Hornady Critical Defense 124 grain. I did a little custom modification to the aggressive grip checkering, but now they have the Mod 2, which is fantastic and addresses the complaints about the deep grooves in the grip. The .357 SIG was designed to mimic the .357 Mag stopping power and velocity and make it available in a magazine-fed, semi-automatic pistol, as the .357 Mag is considered a revolver round. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Now, which gun would you rather have? I still prefer my two friends, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson. Smith & Wesson. 2) why use the older shield and not the newer version? Remington had issues with the 700 trigger going boom without pulling the trigger. Sig didn’t do anything new here. I believe based off my research, testing and 30 years of military and LEO experience, .40 is my choice. [citation needed] In doing so, the Texas DPS became the first government agency to deploy a firearm utilizing the then relatively new .357 SIG chambering. A winner for me. Despite their functional similarities, the Sig P226 and the Sig P229 have notable differences when it comes to sight radius length, barrel, and slide. I owned a P229R back in 2006, and within the first two years, the extra broke, leaving the gun hiccuping ammo everywhere with constant malfunctions. Most .40 S&W pistols can be converted to .357 SIG by replacing the barrel, but sometimes the recoil spring must also be changed. Before the Sig was introduced, I tested the Glock 43, Ruger LC9S, Kahr PM9, S&W Shield, Sig P290, Kel Tec PF-9 and the Springfield XDS to select a carry 9. The well stippled little grip is easy to get a hold of and hang on to while shooting. Penetration – penetration depth (ballistic gelatin). Glocks are the one gun that never need to defend or prove their reliability. Bullet weights ranging from 115 to 150 grains (7.5 to 9.7 g) have been offered. The newer SIG Sauer P229 in .357 SIG has been adopted for use by agents and officers of the following national and state law enforcement organizations (LEO): The Tennessee Highway Patrol currently[when?] Bullets are a component of the cartridge as a whole. Those two things can make a difference in the review regardless of who does the review. I own a Shield and have shot just about every Glock out there including the 43. thank you. Sig in foreground holds 10+1, Glock 6+1, 2nd Sig 12+1, S&W Shield 8+1. More plastic wonders that didn’t get designed/tested properly….primer drags from unlocking too early and broken firing pins ?? Sig is to be credited for pushing the design and development of the tiny 9×19 concealed carry market. i carry the p.c. Just cant seem to get my hands on a 365, need to feel and shoot it to offer an unbiased opinion. Take care, remain vigilant and stay safe. My personal preference is the S&W shield EZ M2.0. It is also important to note that although Sig is mum on the subject, newer 365s have a different shape to the striker and there is already an aftermarket striker being developed. While the 365 is arguably a better cc choice, I still mostly carry the 938 with a +1 mag. @Jay I have trusted my life to the 1911 design for more years than I wish to relate, and while the 938 deviated slightly from the church of John Moses Browning, it is close enough not to matter. My experience with polymer framed Sigs hasn’t been nearly so lucky. Kansas-based SmartGunz have announced that their Sentry 9mm pistol, the company's first product, will begin shipping in the 2nd quarter of 2021. The last 18 months have proven this. The term should be, it held more ammunition than it’s rival competitors. And I find my Taurus and Keltec function as good or better than the Big guys guns. Engaging multiple silhouettes and an MGM plate rack from 10 yards was fun and easily accomplished with each product. Easy and inexpensive, Both greatly increase the fight of this weapon. Stumbled across a new P365 at the local gun-store literally by accident. I frequently carried a P11 with flush fit twelve round magazines and one up the pipe for many years. I also own a Colt Classic 1911, SA Range Officer Compact and a Sig P320c and amazjngly I shoot the P365 better than any of them. https://www.glockstore.com/Magazine-Extension-for-Glock-43. Irrespective of what contributers to this article may think about the pistol (myself included) – and what YouTube contributors confidently tout, pro or con, the P365 is pushing the market competitively in a good direction. (Isaiah 41:10 So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. So the winner was the XDS. of the 9mm cartridge , nor would I want a striker fired I also added a M2.0 in .45 acp and love it. [41][better source needed] In July 2014 it was announced that the North Carolina State Highway Patrol will equip its 1,600 officers with the SIG Sauer P226 in .357 SIG. This review was nothing but a way to make Sig look good. The smallest group overall was shot by the Glock 43 with the Federal ammunition. Both are entrenched in culture and known to those who are pretty far removed from the shooting world in general. Not including the Kahr series compact 9mms in this article renders it moot. and the SAAMI pressure limits for .40 S&W are 225 MPa and 35,000 psi), and may not be suitable for use in all .40 S&W-chambered pistols due to the increase in bolt thrust. [18] This is because the bullet is channeled through the larger chamber before being seated entirely as the slide goes into full battery. Unfortunately this combination, Glock 43 and Federal 147 JHP ammunition also had the only malfunctions (2) during all the testing. An average muzzle velocity of 9mm ammunition, that being the energy the bullet leaves the barrel with, is around 1,200 feet per second (commonly abbreviated as … I consider myself a very patriotic person, having served four years in the United States Marine Corps, willing to put my life on the line for the USA. I’m perfectly fine buying a 43 and just practicing with it because I will get better. I have to agree with Mike Gardner. On a more personal note, I had a 5.0 mustang when they first came out way back when,I wouldn’t have recognized it if it wasnt hooked up to a tow truck…does that make all other mustang’s piles of crap? I practice with it every trip to the range and find it extremely easy to shoot, and my groupings are tighter than ever. I’ve had 1 reliable polymer Sig in 9, a 2022 but it needed to be polished to feed hollow points. I am a Sig fan and own 3 but I am not willing to buy the 365 until Sig says they have found and solved the striker issue. In the last 30 years, the FBI has moved from .38/.357 caliber revolvers to 9mm semi-automatics to 10mm (after the 1986 Miami shootout), then to .40S&W (once they realized how difficult it was for some agents to handle) and now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new “Gen5” Glock … Your comment make more sense than anything on the page. Visit Glock and learn more about the G43 by clicking Here. Yes, it is double stacked but it is still small. I’m happy with the 365 and am also looking at the Glock 43X as a back up. The Eutawville Police Department in South Carolina issues the Glock 31 in .357 SIG. 500 rounds, no issues. Of course the Sig won. Back to Sig today 4-6 week turnaround. I just have to comment, to set the record straight. 1,000 rounds of all types including reloads thru my 365 and I’ve had zero failures. Next thing you know, people and verifying through independent backyard testing (on video, mind you) the the lauded trigger in the P320 is not drop safe, and Sig is very slow to respond. Patriotism is generally defined as love of country. i own two Sigs, Several SW revolvers, a couple Walthers, a Taurus, several Colt revolvers, A Keltec, a Berreta, a bunch of Rugers. I did the same thing on Wednesday, only I used the XDs Mod 2 instead of the Shield. the Sig p365. Rationale for this setup, not to get into a debate on calibers but more rounds add weight to a pistol that i want to be highly concealable and light as possible. Magazines will freely interchange between the two cartridges in most pistols. As identical holsters for each were not available I shot them all from a low ready start. I own several carry size 9’s. Drag marks causing broken strikers, sights, etc. Not that it would have made a huge difference, but it could have made a difference non the less since the M2.0 version clearly sports upgrades. “If one equates “freedom” with the absurdly low bar set before acquiring a gun”. Would this difference be noticeable under stress in a hostile encounter – maybe, maybe not? It’s been quite reliable so far, had a couple failure-to-go-into-battery (by about 1/16″) when it was brand new, but that cleared up almost immediately and has been perfectly reliable since then with all types of ammo. Like the 10mm Auto, the .357 SIG can be down-loaded to reduce recoil to the point where recoil is similar to that of a 9×19mm Parabellum. Says $599, “a bit higher, etc..”. Home Defense, Think about it for a minute, 10+1 in the Sig is as many rounds as a single stack 9mm 1911 … Like any other carry gun, I would need to put several hundred rounds through it before I carry it. The .357 SIG (designated as the 357 Sig by the SAAMI[2] and 357 SIG by the C.I.P. I got that for $365 with 4 mags, a mag loader and two boxes of shells. Mildest to shoot out of all of them and hardly any muzzle flip. I only got rid of it because I got the TRP Operator. This article is not lying about the 365. Anyway, I went in completely unbiased – was hoping to not like the Sig because of the issues. Until they get them sorted out, I would steer clear of them. EDITOR’S NOTE: When this article originally published the availability of the SIG P365 and Glock 43 were somewhat limited. Loads are available with energies from 488 foot-pounds force (662 J) to 583 foot-pounds force (790 J), and penetration depths from 9 inches (230 mm) to over 16.5 inches (420 mm) are available for various applications and risk assessments. Next post: The Rugged Life and Gory Death of Wild Bill Hickok, Previous post: Clay’s COVID-19 Gun Buying Guide for Noobs Part II: Holsters & Slings. I have 3 9mm’s, a Hi-Power, Beretta my Son prefers and a S&W 5906. As an owner and senior, I have become increasingly intolerant of persons who falsely equate “Freedom,” or other cliched aphorisms meant to define Patriotism in any form, with a mandatory reverence towards firearms. 365. ", "Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum - Texas Rangers Today - Standard Issue Equipment", "New Glock 31, .357 Testing & Evaluation", "North Carolina State Highway Patrol Buy SIG SAUER P226 in .357SIG - The Truth About Guns", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.357_SIG&oldid=1006988883, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with incomplete citations from June 2016, Articles with unsourced statements from June 2016, Articles with failed verification from March 2016, All articles with vague or ambiguous time, Articles with failed verification from June 2016, Articles lacking reliable references from June 2016, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This page was last edited on 15 February 2021, at 22:12. Personal not personnel. These are small guns. has demonstrated itself to follow through and make right any design problems related to their products. Nice article Jeff and I must admit that Glock should have found a way to put more rounds in the smallest mag. the 2.0 major improvement over the original. My P365 is my pocket firearm and a p365XL is my normal carry firearm and I have a Romeo Zero on it also. Freedom if you aint exercising it, it is like a shrinking muscle: Wasting and weak. 4. Also, I have over 2000 rounds through it without a single malfunction using commercial SD ammo and my handloads ranging from 115gr to 147gr. Visit Sig and learn more about the P365 by clicking Here. Not one word. You omitted to mention MSRP ! It’s as if they fire laser guided bullets with perfect reliability in my experience. Like any other carry gun, I would need to put several hundred rounds through it before I carry it. My P365 does demonstrate the extreme “firing pin” drag and base scratching of spent cartridges others have reported – leading to breakages in their P365 firing pins. I stood back 62 yards with 23 rds of Hornady 115 XTP (my handloads) and was rewarded with 23 pings on a 11×20 IPSC steel plate, all center mass except for one I put in the left shoulder. I can shoot all of the fine, but because they are small the Shield just works for me when shooting and drawing from cover, way better than the other two. Think about it for a minute, 10+1 in the Sig is as many rounds as a single stack 9mm 1911 holds. Its slimness just melts into me when I carry it. The P365 will most likely be my next pistol purchase. Same with 1 of my last 7 jeeps….so let’s just make sure we buy a gen 2 if you want one and be happy. Thin is important when you tuck this in your waistband each day. Looks like you used the S&W Mod1.0 version….. and not the later Mod2.0 …..in the comparision. Keltec and Taurus and alther have made them for years before everyone caught on. But their popularity has declined due to the higher capacity and quicker reloading of semi-automatic pistols in the 9mm Parabellum, the .357 SIG, the .40 S&W, the .45 ACP, or the .45 GAP versions. Let’s get a ” grip ” here , folks ! Glock, I have a Sig 938 and a GSR in .45 bought used. The distance of the reach from the back strap to the trigger is relatively equal for all 3 guns. Is hands down best and better than my Glock 43. The P365 will most likely be my next pistol purchase. I would not trust that gun with my life. All three guns shot accurately enough to be used in defensive situations, clearly, each gun had some likes and dislikes in the ammunition tested. It was created to ensure that “we the people” will always have to means to defeat the tyranny of those who control the local, state, and federal governments, primarily the federal government. I have about 200 rounds through the Sig and about 1000 rounds through the Shield. The outstanding grip design, higher capacity, great sights, lighter trigger pull, smaller length, light weight and just a great overall feel make it a winning product. Stay safe. PC – permanent cavity volume (ballistic gelatin, FBI method). I am disappointed. The casing of the .357 SIG is both thicker and longer than the .40 S&W (when comparing the .40 vs. .357 SIG, the casing lengths differ by .005 inches) and more resembles the 10mm casing. i like the smith better had one for 8 years with no issue. A 9mm in a normal 9mm case, or a 9mm in a bottlenecked .40 S&W case? In comparing the energy levels of premium self-defense ammunition, the muzzle energy of 584 ft⋅lbf (792 J) of the 125 grains (8.1 g) 1,450 feet per second (440 m/s) .357 SIG load is greater than either the 475 ft⋅lbf (644 J) generated by a 155 grains (10.0 g) 1,175 feet per second (358 m/s) Speer GoldDot .40 S&W load or the 400 ft⋅lbf (540 J) generated by a 180 grains (12 g) 985 feet per second (300 m/s) Speer GoldDot .40 S&W load.[28]. Thanks again for the article. Busted firing pin notwithstanding. at 74 years old the red dot is a must. So far so good. I’ve got 2 G42, 2 G43, 2 XDS (9&45), 2 Kahr (380 & 9mm) that will never be carried again. We are not obligated to purchase anything in any of these For the time being, I’ll stick with my Bersa Thunder 9 Pro Ultra Compact (that’s a mouthful). The Sig has a smooth recoil and a lighter trigger. [10] Likewise, US reloading supplier Lyman has published that the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth. Sig and SW how about better springs ? Although I appreciate gun reviews, even though most read like a sales pitch, it seems most of us are not immune to using the wrong terminology thereby reducing the impact of our article. Modern gun culture is not about “idolatry.” It is about maintaining freedom. S&W had the greatest sight radius due to rear sight reaching to the back of the slide. Go to SigForum and check out the P365 threads. The Sig P365 wins this shootout in my humble opinion.