Force yourself to try something new — even if it isn’t natural. degrees within the past dozen years whether, if they could go back in time to the moment when they decided to attend law school… Don’t go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer. In fact, it seems to me like one of very few non-STEM or business careers that often pays a 6 figure salary. It's acting like everything is fine and normal in the world and we aren't going through a fucking global pandemic. The last two years have been the worst of my life. The data is misleading and on top of that people overreact to the salary numbers and underestimate their own opportunity costs. Law school was stressful enough but now it is fully online with zero support. Your analogy should be more like Law : Verbal intelligence :: Dentistry : Spatial Intelligence. The last two years have been the worst of my life. Press J to jump to the feed. Maybe his publisher had him include that. You'd make bank in something like medical equipment sales. I also want to do my part in ending this destructive ideology that grad school is always necessary. My counterpoint is, at least for a student who has above average "humanities" skills but is average to below average in math and science, it seems to be best chance at a high-paying career. You’re not wrong about how difficult it is and about how the schools often make it worse. By verbal skills I mostly mean writing and reading skills, not "can argue really well". Don't Go To Law School (Unless)A Law Professor's Inside Guide to Maximizing Opportunity and Minimizing Risk.Paul Campos Paul Campos in front of Wolf Law. Law Schools no longer care if you have a lower score on the … U.S. News asked some law school grads who earned their J.D. People saying something like “business” career is so general and vague, it’s not even a job. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I mean this in terms of which law school you should choose to attend (more on this later), as well as whether you should even attend law school at all. I've often heard some variation of "don't go to law school for the money", either from lawyers themselves or in articles about law school. I almost quit around this time in my second year. Don't go to law school. I can't take it. This semester I've become bulimic. If you've got above average verbal skills and emotional intelligence, sales would be a better chance of a 6 figure income than law. Most people hate being lawyers. Have you been meaning to read Don’t Go To Law School (Unless) by Professor Paul Campos (affiliate link), but prefer consuming your information via infographic? Don’t go to law school if you’re going to accumulate mountains of debt or are going to a bad school. Law school is incredibly difficult and stressful. I can't do this. Am I wrong here? 209. share. And don’t forget there is a registration fee. If you go to an average law school and don’t get any tuition help or scholarships, you are going to spend ~$150,000 all-in, at least (that is the MINIMUM). It’s a contentious, adversarial process, and your … I wish I'd known how good my humanities skills would make me at learning programming languages when I was in undergrad. This thread is pretty weird. I wish you the best! The average tuition at private law school was $49,312 in 2019, compared to an average of $28,186 at a public school. You’ve done this for 16 years (1 st grade through college) and you still don’t know exactly what you want to do when you grow up. But, LSAT success requires serious preparation and at least three months of intensive preparation. Are you in your second year? There are two important flaws in this logic. (Just google JD Underground.) But what if you got a half scholarship at one of those top schools. There's also the possibility that there isn't a career path where median income is 6 figures for the humanities oriented among us. Don't miss: 6 questions to ask yourself if you think you want to go to law school; The 10 states most impacted by student debt; The 10 most educated … I would hope most lawyers, particularly those at firms, would agree that good reasons to go to law school pretty much start and end with "I want to be a lawyer". You’re only looking at 160k of crushing debt. Other than that, go wild. The degree is useful for other things, and the thought of staying in the legal profession makes me want to cry. Actually, I've found that it uses a lot of the same skills as taking the LSAT: logic, language, etc. My real advice is that you should finish it and look for a job in whatever department you want after. I guess the point being that you go to law school because you want to be a lawyer, and that high salaries aren't guaranteed in law. People who go to law school because they "can argue really well" have been led astray at some point. Whatever you choose, don’t be deterred by job descriptions that don’t quite match your background. "But wait, DeadBela! A fictitious dialog between a law school dean and a law school graduate. Law school isn't a solution to your fear of the career abyss. And this of course is entirely subjective. I disagree that this is the best chance at making 6-figures for someone with a humanities skill set, because I believe computer programming is. But I’m not a lawyer, I’m not in law school, was it really that dumb of me to base my impression on lawyer salaries on the median? People should only be lawyers if they want to be lawyers, the money isn't that good and requires like a decade (optimistically) of time and financial investment to even get back to a net worth of $0. Fear of the future is normal. Hear me out on this. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. You should not go to law school unless you are pretty sure you want to be a lawyer. I think the stress of the pandemic on top of law school is just really hard to handle. An increasingly likely possibility in our modern world. My depression and anxiety, which I worked for years to overcome, are back. You can go more in depth by majoring in computer science, but you'll need to learn at least calculus, if not differential equations, linear algebra and possibly analysis. School rankings matter, because they matter to employers. By way of background, I graduated from Emory Law School squarely in the middle of my class. I've often heard some variation of "don't go to law school for the money", either from lawyers themselves or in articles about law school. Don't go to law school just because you think you should. I finished law school too and was a total nightmare for me. It doesn't … The Law School at Stanford University is another top-ranked law school. Law school, as exciting and thrilling as it may sound, is all about fit and compatibility. It is not worth it. Going to law school is expensive. And maybe I'd have saved up buckets of money from some gap years in this high-paying, in-demand field, instead of needing so many student loans to go to law school. Once you enter the land of "I guess...what else am i going to do?" This cost does not include rent, food, transportation, and … Have fun either shelling out $2500+ to live alone, being a "successful" white collar professional sharing a 4 bed/1 bath apartment with 3 others or alternatively, commuting an hour to work, (7) No big deal, you've solved all of the above - you are now working in a job that is a horrifically bad fit for most people that sign up for it, (8) If you are the one that is built to last at a firm for the long haul due to a very rare combination of unlimited patience, business generating charisma and interest in a practice group that happens to be growing at the time you would make partner you are almost certainly not perusing Reddit fishing for threads to justify your path. Don’t just go to law school to learn from legal textbooks. The main purpose of this article is to help you answer the latter part. I know for a fact that with my skill set (reading, writing, etc) and in the location I live I couldn’t get a higher paying job elsewhere. But don’t lose heart! "A college graduate should not go to law school only because he or she is able to get admitted into law school and does not know what he or she wants to … Go if you really want to be a lawyer. For current and former Law School Redditors. Yeah, I'm looking into jobs that are not in the legal field. I thought there was gold at the end of the rainbow, but ended up with a flaming pile of debt and despair. That's three years of tuition, assorted fees, books and living expenses. The practice of law is hard. Stanford Law School. Tl;dr - if you do something else with your life you can very easily take home more money (despite grossing significantly less), be less geographically limited and not subject yourself to the rat race. Being skilled in communication is essential in almost 85% of jobs out there, and it isn't that much more important to the practice of law. According to U.S. News & World report's 2017 law school rankings, the average cost of tuition and fees among the top 10 law schools is $60,293 per year. you have to be good at math to succeed in programming, correct? I meant reading and writing skills by verbal skills, not people skills lol, Law : Verbal skills :: Dentistry : Bipedal locomotion. The number of pure programming jobs is declining, though, and the ones that remain are getting more competitive. 5. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Yeah, I am a 2L. Here's a test- if someone asks you "why do you want to go to law school?" (1) The two places with the overwhelmingly largest number of jobs paying call it $150k starting are NY and CA and you end up with something approaching a 50% marginal tax rate depending on your personal circumstances, (2) You don't just walk into that median paying job, to have some certainty you can be able to get in the door most people need the name recognition of a Top [whatever number is the current buzz] school, effectively all of which have annual costs of attending over ~$70k, (3) Of everyone who enters law school, 49% end up below median and dozens of students go to those schools every year and end up un/underemployed having payed the same amount, (4) Don't have family funding or a full ride? I also love my job and am so glad I stuck with it because you can do a lot with a JD. It's also a shot at not getting a job and having 200k in debt before falling back on one of those "other" humanities jobs. Yeah idk why this question is so controversial or why the points I’m bringing up are so unreasonable to get downvoted so much. I describe the detriments of getting a J.D. There might be institutional or ABA-imposed barriers that I’m unaware of. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The Pecking Order. That's a science!" Are there other career fields that are geared towards verbal skills where a person stands to make a similar salary? And very little actual science seems to be required. Please, for the love of all things that are good, do NOT go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer (or you won’t be taking out a single loan for it). If you are considering law school, don't do it. A mutually supportive community where deeply emotional things you can't tell people you know can be told. And if you don’t know what “be a lawyer” really means, you should … a law degree is versatile, you can make a lot of money as a lawyer, you can enact social change as a lawyer, etc.) I mean the point about bimodal salaries skewing the mean is well taken, I didn’t know that. In truth, he should’ve just named the book “Don’t Go To Law School” and left off the “(Unless)” portion because that is how the book reads. I've heard that is the hardest year so maybe that's why I'm so miserable. Whether it's long-standing baggage, happy thoughts, or recent trauma, posting it here may provide some relief. By Elie Mystal. That’s 3 years of tuition, assorted fees, books and living expenses. I imagine that being in the pandemic state in even worse. Dude, overall verbal intelligence (and not merely "arguing well") is ridiculously important in the law- the ability to read, write and to think critically about ideas and arguments, as well as remembering the correct ideas and arguments at the right moment, is central to what lawyers do. I promise that you don’t have to be the top of your class if class competition is adding stress to your life. I’m very glad I didn’t. This school doesn't care at all about the well-being of its students. Go to law school with the intent to insert yourself into a bustling legal community and watch the magic happen. As far as what I did after law school: guess what? I realize all of the above are first world problems (and some may be exaggerated as applied to certain people and circumstances) but they are nonetheless actual problems with the well trodden path. It is not as easy as it seems. I am an economist now . (And even then, with caution). Ask questions, seek advice, post outlines, etc. If I had people skills at all, I'd have looked into it more. I just don't think you should go to law school.Follow my solo vanlife adventures: https://www.instagram.com/vacayvans/ This semester I've become bulimic. I speak from experience. Sure, there is litigation and trial work, but that doesn't make up the lion's share of legal work, and even then some would argue that your ability to draft decent briefs or filings and do good research is more important in support of those aspects. and start actively working to convince yourself that you are special and capable of finding happiness in a sea of other [generally intelligent and successful] people who failed to do so you owe it to yourself and your family to take a really close look at the path before you get too far down it. This school doesn't care at all about the well-being of its students. and why most people should avoid going to law school without a full-ride. In sum, tons of people going to law school shouldn’t from a fiscally conservative standpoint, but it doesn’t matter because humans make tons of terrible decisions every day. If you go to an average law school and don't get any tuition help or scholarships, you are going to spend ~$150,000 all-in, at least. I wish I could go back in time and tell myself to pursue literally any other degree. My depression and anxiety, which I worked for years to overcome, are back. The advantage of the network / brand / reputation of top tier law school is useful in getting you a job in the AmLaw 100. Unless you are one of the few whose parents set up a tuition fund for BOTH your undergrad AND your grad school, that means you are going to be taking loans. I use to see a therapist and I've been thinking about looking into some kind of tele-therapist. But, no joke. Only Your Highest LSAT Score Matters. Unless you are one of the few whose parents set up a tuition fund for both your undergrad and your grad school, that means you are going to be taking loans. We aim to keep this a safe space. Many, many law school graduates attend non-T14 schools and go on to have successful law careers. If you don’t hit the jackpot, your most likely outcome is a $20 to $30 hourly wage. OP is getting downvoted to oblivion and is raising some valid points. ** The law school application fee for this school is $100 plus the OLSAS Application service fee of $200 *** Average is the Median CGPA (E) refers to the English LL.B program offered at the University of Ottawa (F) refers to the French LL.B program offered at the University of Ottawa.
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