thinset open time

I’ll take the example of All Set at 6.2L per 50lbs. You should've used a 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4 square notch trowel for 12x12. Thinset tile mortar provides a very strong bond and is resistant to moisture and mold growth. The Flexbond thinset from Home Depot lists the following in the spec sheet: Pot Life: 4hrs Open Time: 65-70 minutes Adjustment Time: 45-50 minutes I think I understand Pot Life (Time to shouldn't use after mixing is complete) and Open Time (Time that it is OK to lay tiles after combing thinset), but what is Adjustment Time? Over and out. Gel time can be measured by following the viscosity until there is a point when the viscosity is so high it is no longer liquid. This cure time will be longer if the temperature of the room is below 60 F. The directions call for the thin-set to be loose yet still hold a trowel ridge. You should revisit you article and correct it. You can mix it a bit without adding water to make it workable but after that, throw it out and make a new batch. 2. Lols! Schluter SET requires 6 to 7 quarts of water for a 50lb bag. Indeed, exactly how does one accurately measure out, say, a tenth of a 60 or 90 lb bag without scales or large graduated cylinders or whatever? We show how to build showers (Schluter, Wedi, Curbless, etc. Break out a scale and weigh up that much, then you know what it is supposed to be like. This 5 – 10 – 3 procedure gives Schluter SET and ALL-SET the best consistency, open time and pot life. The following question was never directly answered and now I need to know the same thing. After 10 minutes you need to mix Schluter SET and ALL-SET for an additional 3 minutes. All this talk of bathrooms . Required fields are marked *. One week later i was able to peel out the Kerdi bands off the kerdi boards. So if a novice DIYourselfer is tiling for the first time, how much thinset should he mix in a 5 gallon bucket assuming he is going slower than a tiling pro? We are putting up 12 x 24 tile in a shower stall. Have you confused open time and pot life? Ideal for use over masonry, concrete, cement backerboard, mortar beds and gypsum wallboard*. I realize you CAN get “close” by eyeballing, but wouldn’t it be easier for everyone to simply state that the ratio by volume is such and such? vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. That thing doesnt stick. Thinset mortar takes between 24-48 hours to cure. We often mix thinset in the morning after final set-up. ALL-SET = 2 to 4 Hours. Schluter has some of the best products for waterproofing bathrooms. What is Open Time? . What is interesting to me, and at the same time doesn't make a lot of sense, is the adjustment time is ~1/5 of the pot life. You can do the same with FAST-SET but the open time is a little less. I’m particularly interested in the All Set variety. we have several bags of Set that were left over from a job last summer. More yard bunnies at end-of-day cleanup. Watch our video for all the details on Schluter’s new thin-set. Mix with LATICRETE 333 Super Flexible Additive for increased performance or LATICRETE 3701 Mortar Admix for exterior use. For now Schluter only has instructions for mixing a whole bag. The secret to keeping mortar from hardening and being ruined is … I assume the product works as well on a kitchen floor? Most tile is considered to be set up enough after 24 hours to grout. SpeedSet™ Fortified Thin-Set Mortar A quick-setting, polymer-modified mortar, SpeedSet is excellent for commercial use and cold temperature installations, as well as small residential jobs and repairs. You really arent a tile guy are yah. Schluter requires the thin-set to be a bit loose for it’s DITRA and DITRA-HEAT. As was said above, never add water at this point to try to extend it! Your numbers seem correct, however you have no idea what its referring to. The instructions clearly give a max pot life of 3 hours, saying that power remixing may be needed if the mortar starts to harden. You should wait at least 24 hours before grouting the tiles. Your email address will not be published. (19 mm) thick on horizontal surfaces after beat-in. Primarily because it can be used under and over DITRA, DITRA-HEAT and KERDI-BOARD. Of course, this is a first order estimate, but for the purpose of mixing small quantities, it’s probably reasonable to take a coffee can sized container, dump 1 container’s worth of water in a small bucket, then add 2.5 containers of mortar and mix. :lol1: You're probably right, especially if you keep it in the fridge. Throw it away and mix new. Your email address will not be published. That works. From the center tile, measure to the opposite wall (call it B; mark this distance along the tile row. Did you have a specific question about either? After lunch we mix a new batch. Learn how your comment data is processed. Schluter Set = 2 to 4 Hours. Make sure to observe the open time of the thin-set mortar. Each Schluter thin-set has different directions. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Step Eight: Pay close attention to the time you’re supposed to allow the thinset to cure and harden. Excellent for setting large format tile or stone, ProLite will not sag or slip on walls and offers non-slump performance for floor installations. Open time refers to the wet tack time when buttering and spreading. We found that the thin-set will appear a bit dry after the 5 minutes but don’t add more water. 6. Pour water into a 5 gallon bucket then add the thin-set. Laticrete 257 TITANIUM designed to just mix with water, has a 60 minute open time with unsurpassed adhesion and workability while providing exceptional strength, far exceeding all industry […] So, all thinsets are mortars but not all mortars are thinsets. It’s the time in which the thin-set will remain creamy and workable after taking it out of the bucket. It is most frequently used for tiles and counter-tops. ANSWER ANSWER - What you are referring to is the Pot-Life, which refers to how long the mortar stays workable inside the bucket, and Open-Time, which refers to how long the mortar stays workable as you install the tile to its substrate. 7lbs is 14% of the bag, so 6.2Lx 0.14 = 0.868L. I'm not really surprised. Grout is the same way assuming you are using Portland cement grout. We’re pretty stoked to have it as an option. Custom Building Products Custom Blend 50 Custom Building Products Custom Blend 50 lbs. If I am doing wall tiles will the tiles not stick to thinset? If the mortar skins over, remove and re-apply fresh mortar. Thinset is your go-to tile mortar for most indoor and outdoor applications. I thought it may be the time in which water, or more thinset, could be added to "adjust" the mix. You may notice that the edges of the thinset or the thinset showing through the grout lines looks dry. I weigh out 10 lbs on a scale and set aside. With most kinds of thinset, it's generally advisable to wait at least 48 hours after application before walking on or applying pressure to the tile. If the mortar skins over, remove and re-apply fresh mortar. At this point the thinset has already started the curing process and any mixing will stop that process and the tile will not be bonded. Frankly, all the food analogies weren't too helpful for me. Unmodified thinset is composed of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents. All the thin-sets come in either white or gray as indicated on the bag. We highly recommend using Schluter’s new thin-set if you’re using any of their products. Thanks Mel for asking. Actually, the air conditioning cooler air will extend the pot-life and open-time of the mortars. Use to install porcelain, glass, quarry, ceramic and most natural stone tiles* over interior or exterior concrete and masonry floor and wall surfaces. ARDEX X 77™ MICROTEC ® Fiber Reinforced Tile and Stone Mortar is a high-performance, microfiber-reinforced, polymer-modified mortar formulated especially for large format tile installations. Traditional versions are cement-based powders that are mixed with water prior to application. When we get to lunch , anything left over gets made into yard bunnies. This is in contrast to traditional installations where mortar is used much thicker (1" or more) as a 'mud bed.' They have been a real life saver and inspiration for this DIYer! Formulated with CustomLite Technology, ProLite is 40% lighter than traditional mortars. More like frosting:). Is it too late to add more allset or water? Please? ), install tile, upgrade basement bathrooms, and more. Also we just bought several bags of AllSet. You will substantially weaken the mortar strength. 5. Thanks for the clarification. If anyone tries that or knows where I went wrong, I’d love to hear about it. View Full Version : Pot Life; Open Time; Adjustment Time. It is customary for a thermoset system with a gel time of say 60 minutes, to advise the customer that the material must not be disturbed, moved, handled after it has cured for 50 minutes. Open Time: 20 minutes at 28 days >0.50 MPa (>72 PSI) PSI) 0.92 (133 ANSI A118.4 mixed with 5 qts of water [4.7L] Test Test Method Results Shear Bond, Porcelain Tile, Place28 day ANSI 400A118.4 5.2.4 –425 psi (2.7–2.9 MPa) Shear Bond, Quarry Tile/Plywood, 28 day ANSI A118.11 160–180 psi (1.0–1.1 MPa) Sag on Wall EN 1308 0.25 mm Unique high tack and long adjustment time. PROFLEX® PRO-STICK 42R (ANSI A118.11) is a rapid set thin set mortar that is formulated to be a fast setting mortar with superior performance and workability characteristics. Modified thinset, on the other hand, is not recommended because it relies on air to cure properly. Adjust the center… 6. Thinset under travertine will "set" in a matter of just a few hours if the temperature is agreeable, and overnight will be plenty of time to stay off of it. If you opt for a pre-mixed thinset for your ceramic tile installation, you will be waiting double the time estimated for normal cement-based thinsets. The same thing applies to grout. I won’t hold you to it! 5. Manufacturers often recommend allowing a window of 24 to 48 hours for curing time, and in this case, longer is better. Yes, adjustment time is the amount of time after laying a tile that it can be adjusted before the mortar sets. When sandwiched between two impervious layers — the tile and the installation membrane — drying can only take place through the open … ALL-SET and FAST-SET require 5.5 to 6.5 quarts of water for a 50lb bag. I determine I want to mix 10 lbs. Thinset is a specialized mortar that has been designed to be applied as a relatively thin (3/32" or less) layer. Adjustments allowed, yet it will set quickly, allowing the grouting process to begin in under 3 hours with light traffic in 4 hours. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. Re: Schulter Set. Pot Life is the time you have before the thin-set starts to skin over and become unworkable. Capable of thin-set or medium bed application up to 3/4 in. To say that you checked the definitions is funny. If I am doing wall tiles will the tiles not stick to thinset? Mix the thin-set for 5 minutes at a speed of 300 RPMs. This can also be affected by how thick you laid it down. Specially developed for the professional tile installer. I would mix up just enough for what you can set in 30 mins. Is there a powder/water ratio for mixing this in small batches? Do not use thinset that was mixed yesterday!!! 1 Qt = 1/5 of the bag. Thanks for asking. What are the signs of the thinset stiffing up? (I’ve simply gotten more crotchety in my old age.). Offers good working time to apply and adjust tiles. How can you tell if the thinset has been in the bucket too long and should be discarded for a new batch? The NEW Schluter Thin-Set (Quick Tips) — by Home Repair Tutor, The NEW Schluter Thin-Set (Quick Tips) - by Home Repair Tutor - John Richmond Home Improvement, How to Tile a Bathroom Floor with Travertine Tile and Get Great Results, KERDI Shower Kit Installation: Step-by-Step Detailed Instructions, Pebble Tile Shower Floor Tips (5 Important Concepts), How to Tile a Shower Pan...Penny Tile Tips | Home Repair Tutor, 10 Reasons Why Your DIY Shower Makeover Will Fail | Home Repair Tutor, 10 Reasons Why Your DIY Shower Makeover Will Fail – Bathroom Remodel. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if someone would say, “use x scoops powder for each scoop of water”? Twist the tile slightly as you set it … If you mix a batch that is too large for immediate use, there are ways of storing it securely for use the next day or even later. Schluter now has three different thin-sets. Standard Thin-Set Mortar offers economy with good bond strength for most tile projects and is recommended for floor installations. But, you could probably just cut those instructions in half to mix a half bag. Clean all excess mortar from tile and joints while mortar is still plastic using a sponge and clean water. This prevents the thin-set from sticking to the bottom of the bucket and also cuts down on the dust. I’ll give that a try and see what happens. What’s most important with Schluter’s thin-set is to read the directions. 80% is enough to do any work on. It reduces the need to back-butter tile and it features an extended open time when mixed while providing the ability to be grouted in 6 hours. Good for setting Saltillo and other similar clay pavers. Open Time for each Schluter thin-set is as follows. ALL-SET will likely be our thin-set of choice when using Schluter systems. This ensures the fleece will be 100% covered in thin-set. You can try to use a margin trowel and whip it up a bit to make it workable again, but it's not going to be spreadable much longer. When you start working with it, it will feel creamy and will spread really nice. And we use their systems in the bathrooms we remodel. Being very new to this getting the thinset right was one of my biggest concerns. I decided to make a first order stab at answering my own question. 24 to 48 Hours. . I couldn't ever imagine being able to whip peanut butter. You’re really overthinking it Barry. While traditional dry-mixed thinset only takes between 24 and 72 hours to cure on average, pre-mixed thinsets can take between four and six days in normal conditions, and up to two weeks to dry in humid and cold climates. So, adjustment time refers to moving (adjusting) tiles? Thinset comes in a variety of mixes that are usable for a wide range of tiles and materials. If you’re doing a bathroom remodel and want to simplify the process enroll into the Bathroom Repair Tutor Video Library. If you used 12x12 or larger, it may take much longer. Clean Up Clean tools with water while mortar is plastic. Now those questions are eliminated with the directions on the Schluter thin-set. The thinset will get in the way of grout you’ll apply later. Tried it: 1 part water to 2.5 parts powder. The key phrase you said is ...left over from last night... . It is also heatproof, so it won't lose its grip in hot environments. Simply put, this is the only thin-set you need for installing Schluter products and setting tile. Mixed the Schluter All Set per the specifications for Kerdi Band. In all my experience with bagged products that need to be mixed with water, this question is never answered. For example, if you’re using ALL-SET use close to 6.5 quarts of water with a 50lb bag. I just don’t remember either thinset or grout taking so long to set up. We’ll discuss open time and pot life a bit later. which is the better thinset? I live off of PB&Js, and mixed thinset is not the consistency of peanut butter IMO.Smooth or crunchy? Is it too old, or is the AllSet better prodiuct? I am now wondering if the 12×24 tiles will hold securely with All Set. Clean Up Clean tools with water while mortar is plastic. Bedding thickness can range from 3/32” to ¾”. Pardon me for saying this, but suggesting that one use half the recommended water of a full bag to mix a half bag, is a non-answer, borderline insulting and completely useless, since it is, or should be, painfully obvious to everyone. Permaflex 300 LHT #044/045: Permaflex 300 LHT is a quality thinset mortar that is essential for installing large heavy floor tile. Realizing this may all sound one part harsh, and 3 parts sarcastic, I should end with this: thank you for your videos. Position the tile over the mortar bed and press it in place. Today you’ll learn what makes Schluter’s thin-sets different and how to use them. What I (and MEL) want to know is how many parts (cups, buckets, teaspoons, ie PARTS BY VOLUME) of the mortar should be mixed with how many parts water? Modified thinset contains the same elements, along with liquid latex polymers to aid … BUT, the grout test sample I mixed up 24 hours ago is also still soft. The aforementioned products are still limited by the 4° C temperature limit; however, the time frame of setting is much lower when utilizing these products, and can theref… I'm putting in a new shower for SabreWife, using 6"x 6" and smaller travertine tile and modified thinset. 5.5 quarts per 50lbs of thin-set. What are the signs of the thinset stiffing up? Do not do this. Thinset Dry Time I recently installed a tile floor (12"x24" full body porcelain) in my bathroom using Ditra XL and was wondering how long should I let the floor dry before walking on it. It’s difficult as a beginner to know when the mixture is “right” until I spread the first trowel. Additionally, thinset comes in either unmodified or modified versions. You can still add a little bit of water to your mortar in the bucket a few hours into laying tiles if the mix starts getting thick. Open Time for each Schluter thin-set is as follows. Thankfully, I had someone show me on one batch. FAST-SET can be used after mixing for 5 minutes. Both definitions are correct as are the numbers. Way too much for me, but it makes it easy to mix a nice amount. When we heard the new Schluter thin-set was coming out it was a HUGE deal. Jeff, I do think the times for the pot life and the open time are backwards- the Schluter All Set data sheet says All Set open time is 20-30 minutes, and the pot life is 2-4 hours. You can still add a little bit of water to your mortar in the bucket a few hours into laying tiles if the mix starts getting thick. This is for setting tile on top of Schluter products. Pot Life is the time you have before the thin-set starts to skin over and become unworkable. So, since the instructions suggest using (approx) 6 quarts of water per bag (ie 0.2 cubic feet) and the bag is (approx) 0.5 cubic feet, that gives us a ration of 2.5 (mortar) to 1 (water). One type of thinset I have (50 lb bag) requires 5 Qts of water if you were to mix the whole thing. It is the warm temperatures that will accelerate the … Here’s the Pot Life for each Schluter thin-set. A “ratio” that is based on bags (pounds) per gallons (volume) is only useful when you use full bags. Should we (can we) use the Set? If the thin-set gets a bit stiff within the open time you can re-mix it. I've seen a lot of issues using these premixed type stuff, especially on floors. I'm no professional, but I've tiled before and am quite handy. Installation guide shows 72 hours for 8x8 tile. Just found this thread while searching desperately for answers as to what will happen with my past-pot life tiling last night (detailed in my project thread). The bags have plenty of bag real estate for printed directions and warnings in 3 or more languages, but they can’t quite figure out that they could make everyone’s life a lot easier by providing this simple number. This Laticrete thin set mortar is the ultimate one-step, polymer fortified, thin-set mortar for interior and exterior installation of ceramic tile, stone, quarry tile, pavers and brick. The Flexbond thinset from Home Depot lists the following in the spec sheet: I wouldn't follow anything beyond pot Life. I assume the product works as well on a kitchen floor? Since 10lbs is 20% of the bag, simply multiply the 6.2L by 0.20 and you have your water amount: 1.24L, 10lbs = 1.24L 20lbs = 2.48L 30lbs = 3.72L 40lbs = 4.96L 50lbs = 6.2L, Works very easily or weird portions as well, say 7 lbs. Its quick-curing properties allow for grouting in as … Often you must stay off the new tile floor 48 hours before starting to grout the floor. I’d like to re-ask MEL’s question: what is the volumetric powder/water ratio for mixing Schluter mortar products? What Dave said. Clean all excess mortar from tile and joints while mortar is still plastic using a sponge and clean water. A premium thin-set mortar that can be used for interior use on both floors and walls. I would think with your purported experience with Schluter products, you could give a worthy answer! FAST-SET is a special modified thin-set for setting both Schluter products and tile. Capable of thin-set or medium bed application up to 3/4" (19 mm) thick on horizontal surfaces after beat-in. ALL-SET is their modified thin-set that can be used under and over Schluter products. BUT don’t add any additional water…this is per the directions. I've since adjusted the consistency a tad to make it easier for me. I’ve mixed a lot of thinsets in smaller quantities and here is what I do. Make sure to observe the open time of the thin-set mortar. When that feeling goes away and it starts to feel stiff and thick it's nearing the end of it's pot life. If you don't have the luxury of someone showing you the first time, just work out a ratio for a small amount, e.g., 10 lbs of dry thinset. Jeff your an idiot. Used it to cover the Schluter screws on the Kerdi board with Kerdi band per instructions. BUT there are always questions about the type of thin-set to use when installing DITRA, KERDI-BOARD and tile. I measured a 50 lb bag of the All Set and came up with the following dimensions: 12″x18″x4″ which yields 864 cubic inches which equals, surprisingly, 0.5 cubic feet. PRO-STICK 42R, when mixed, has an initial setting time of 1 hour and ready for foot traffic in 2 to 4 hours. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. (bad advice, don't do this...). Let Schluter SET and ALL-SET sit or slake for 10 minutes. Primarily because we like the consistency and the fact that you’ll get a Lifetime warranty. I live off of PB&Js, and mixed thinset is not the consistency of peanut butter IMO. BUT don’t add any additional water…this is per the directions. This will give you the consistency required to set DITRA or DITRA. On the other hand, if you’re setting tile on a shower surround you want to use the minimum amount of water, e.g. If you’ve never mixed thin-set for DITRA it can be a bit daunting or at least raise questions as to whether you did it right. Thanks Robert for asking, I rechecked my definitions for open time and pot life. This allows the thin-set to absorb the water and activate all the ingredients. thanks tom. You'll know it when it happens. Thinset tile mortar has a smooth, slippery consistency, similar to … Mortar should be mixed in batches that are small enough to use within a few hours. This ratio provides a thicker thin-set that prevents tiles from sagging on vertical surfaces. Thinset mortar is also known as dry set or dry bond mortar, It contains a water retaining additive that assists with the curing and hydration process. Did it go bad? At 18 hours you got some water on your floor. If anything it is slightly too stiff, so a little more water may be necessary. If the thin-set gets a bit stiff within the open time you can re-mix it. FAST-SET = 30 Minutes. Given that the volume of one quart of anything is 0.0.334 cubic feet, 6 quarts (which is the middle of the instructions suggested range of 5.5 to 6.5), is about 0.2 cubic feet. Cement can still be used as a building material in cold weather conditions for laying bricks and other applications; however, it is important to consider methods of ensuring effective curing during these construction procedures. Thinset will normally be 80% cured after 24 hours for moderate indoor temperatures. NEVER add more water to the thinset after the initial mix. Pot time refers to the bucket. My basement is humid so the test samples haven’t dried yet, but cementitious materials don’t set by drying. Yes, adjustment time is the amount of time after laying a tile that it can be adjusted before the mortar sets. Basically you want to use the maximum amount of water when mixing Schluter thin-set for DITRA or DITRA-HEAT. It’s not hard to mix but a lot of folks will be tempted to eyeball the consistency.
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